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I have considered, and just purchased, a pony bottle system. I just learned from my lds that it just came in. So I haven’t had a chance to use it yet. I plan to pick it up later today.
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I currently have two spare airs that I take with me on dives, however I think that I will purchase a pny bottle soon.
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DiveMaiden,
What system did you buy? Have you figured out how you are going to mount it on your rig?
markm
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Hello Matt65,
I have not comunicated with you lately; I hope things are going well.
I thought about buying the spare air system. But, they don’t hold enough air to do a safe and slow ascent from depth. It is a great system to use if you know your buddy is somewhat close so that you can use his octo for the safety stop.
My 6 cubic foot pony is "just" big enough. I always dive with the valve off as I don’t want to lose any air because of it’s small size. Free flows do happen. I have the valve postioned where I can get to it quickly in case of an emergency. When I have practiced pony bottle ascents, I usually spit out my primary reg and then exhale all of my air so as to simulate an actual emergency, then I turn on the valve and grab the pony’s second stage.
markm
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Depending upon they type of dive I am doing I will have several different "backups". I am redundant at several levels.
If I dive doubles, I have two separate regulator systems attached with an isolation valve. In addition to this I carry with at least a 19cuft pony rig (at least 30cuft if extended range).
If I dive singles, I have a regulator set (with octo), and a 19cuft pony.
Although I may appear to be totally self sufficient, I still dive with a buddy who is outfitted similarly. And my buddy had better stay with me.
Until I get my gill implants, I figure that I better take every precaution to make sure a lack of breathing gas does NOT become an issue while I’m underwater.
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Hey Seawolfdiving,
Yea, you techies have your mind right when it comes to thinking ahead with plans B and C ready to go.
Looking back, I wish that my PADI dive training focused more on real life emergencies and the need for redundant systems. Also, I wish I did not have to read books and tech diving manuals to prove my suspicion that all dives are decompression dives.
My instructor is an extremely experienced commercial diver, but he had to "tow" the PADI line when it came to teaching us "no decompression" diving and the buddy dive partnership system even though three of us in the class kept getting him off track with philosophical questions about decompression and the falicy of relying on the PADI buddy system for total safety.
I will probably never go techy as my mind is not suited for staged decompression regimens. I would get bored, make a gas switch mistake, and be sucking pure oxygen at 100’. I know my limitations.
markm
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Hawk,
I always use a redundent asystem when Im diving in the Ocean, some times in the quarrys also. Having been trained in teck I am always aware of the need for a redundancy. My pony is a 19 cf, and I also use doubles with redundent systems. My hang tanks are 30 cf., so I have enough gas for a full deco. I hope this helps you, because most of my people use similar set ups.
Clay
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Hey ScubaClay,
Yea, I would like to have a system like yours, but I would probably want to use that rig deep. I have a touch of dislexia which can get me in trouble when I get bored. I tend to get lazy and forget important steps in the process. At this point in my avocation, tech diving is a no-no.
thanks,
markm
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Mark, this will be my first experience with a pony, so if by "system" you mean what type/size pony bottle, it’s a catalina 19cu. I plan to attach it with an x-bracket. I picked up the pony earlier today, but the bracket hasn’t come in yet. So, I’ll have to wait a little longer to play with it.
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You can’t beat a set of doubles. I have two configurations that I can put together, the ones I use the most are a set of LP77 2440+ therefore ~160cf. In the ocean I need only to add 4lb or switch to a steel back plate in place of the aluminum one and I am all set. Plenty of air and then some. Had them down this past weekend to repair a boat, one of our underwater attractions, and even filling the lift bags off my air still had more than enough when the others were returning because of low air. BTW Water tem was 45f.
Best Fishes!!!
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Hello DalelynnSims,
Does your set of doubles have a redundant regulator system? Can you isolate the tanks and regulators with a manifold?
Lots of air is great, but if you can’t get the air to your mouth in a breathable fashion, well, you are still out of air.
Most people, including DMs, think that I have a habit of running out of air when they see my pony bottle system. And then, when we check-out air consumption after the first dive, all are astonished that I have hundreds, and sometimes in excess of 1,000 psi left in my tank. I am a controlled breather underwater.
Thanks for replying and please give me more info on your rig. What regulators do you use and how are they rigged? Do you do staged decompression or tech diving?
Thanks,
markm
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Hawk,
Don’t let that stop you. You can overcome that problem by repition. The more you do a skill the more it becomes automatic. Keep diving, and learning.
Clay
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I truly enjoy the topic of pony rigs and having a redundant air source readily available. There is nothing more important when diving then the safety of yourself and you buddies. My opinion on the subject is that having that completely redundant air source available should be a must for any serious divers especially when deep diving or diving with an in-experienced diver, you never know when having that extra air will be necessary. The big concern is for those who have them and choose to pick what dives to use them on and which not to. The point is having it with you at all times, one cannot pick the dive where the emergency will take place so getting tierd of lugging it around and wearing it on the surface is something you must learn to get past and always have it ready for that instance when you will need it the most. Another reason I am for having that second source of air is because who knows where your buddy will be when an amergency happens. Yes we always are trained to stay with-in arms reach of your buddy but how many times have you found yourself further than that from your buddy in all honesty? We know that right way of doing things but that does not always turn out to be what happens under water. I read an excellent article on the buddy system and solo diving. In this article this diver discusses that when diving with a buddy your safety is oly as good on your buddies compedence. If your buddy is always right next to you and is into pre-dive planning then chances are you will hav no problem but when you dive wityh different people they all say they will be cool in a bad situation but that does not always turn out to be true, so having that extra air source for yourself is also benificial because you then you just have to worry about you being able to reach down and grab it. Buddy diving (as much I am totally for it because I know my buddies very well) is only as good as the level compedcne of the buddy you are diving with.
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Absolutely the doubles have an isolation manifold. The primary set, on my right, has my primary second, dry suit and lp hose and spg. My left is dedicated to the back up reg that is on a necklace for just in case. Not quite DIR but close, webbed back plate using a 55lb lift wing which is more than enough.
The issue with pony systems is that the gas is not considered when you factor in your dive requirements. The doubles you factor in all the gas, 140cf, 160cf or 200cf depending on the fill and the dive requirement. With a SAC of just a little over .3cfm I also do well with my gas management, however as you know you calculate on the consumption of the gas hog in your group :-/
I will add one more thing about doubles or my heavy single configuration (when in wet suit). If you gotta wear the weight then why not make it advantageous. Most people with a dry suit end up wearing about the amount of weight that can make up the doubles. For me if I have to wear it its gotta work for me.
Hope this helps.
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Hey ScubaClay,
You are right, repitition is the key, but I am not there yet. I’ll keep diving like you say and I am sure the old "light-switch" will turn on and I will become a techy, and a damned good one at that. But, not yet.
Thanks bud,
markm
Hello Dive4urlife,
Your narative was right on. I don’t know how many times I have been underwater and got separated from my buddy. I swear that I was paying attention and then they are 50’ away. On a few occasions, I exhaled out my air and then tried to "catch-up" to my buddy while holding my primary reg in my hand, and you know I could barely do it! When I grabbed my buddies octo I was die’n man, die’n!
I try to get buddys to agree to a leader and a follower. One diver follows on one dive than leads on the other. But it never seems to work that way when I am leading. I try not to swim fast and usually don’t as I really like to find an interesting area and completely explore it with very little swimming. My wife is a real SOB except when her regulator was acting up; then she was right next to me the whole dive (SOB= Same Ocean Buddy. I was right there with you in the Same Ocean Buddy!).
Thanks for the reply,
markm
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DaleLynnSims,
You wrote:
"I will add one more thing about doubles or my heavy single configuration (when in wet suit). If you gotta wear the weight then why not make it advantageous. Most people with a dry suit end up wearing about the amount of weight that can make up the doubles. For me if I have to wear it its gotta work for me."
Now that is profound, I never thought of it that way!
One question though: How do you travel on airliners with that rig?
thanks,
markm
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Hmmm never attempted to get the doubles on an airline, pony yes. That said I am sure it could be done if you had the $$ as you would surely be overweight.
My travel rig is a BP/W, 30lb lift Mark V, 6lb stainless with a 6 lb STA and pockets mounted, inverted at the lower edge of the plate for weights as needed. With a 3mm wet suit in salt water w/AL80 I need about 4lb in those pockets. Packing all my gear including that in a roller bag I still have room for other important things like normal clothing and a towel or two and remain underweight. I have used this in many of the sites I travel to and it is a pleasure to dive.
I do not know if too many places that rent doubles. By special request we will.
Hope this helps
Best fishes!!!
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Let me add something about doubles. Like everything in diving there is a delicate balance in weight, position of the weight and your buoyancy. Like weighting with a weight belt, you should be able to achieve neutral buoyancy with your doubles rig without being overweight. Being able to swim your doubles if you have a wing failure is something that should be considered. It is this same thing the I have in mind when I am using the doubles with my drysuit, I can achieve neutral buoyancy and surface these without air in my wing; while I would not attempt these with a 3mm wet suit. With some research you will find out what works best for you.
Best fishes!!!
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30cu pony with scuba pro 195 reg works well and have not had a single issue with in 2 years, the 30 cu matches the height well of my 85cu steel mid pressures
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Hawk,
The real nice thing about my doubles, is that no matter what water I’m in I don’t need any weight. I saw some coments about wet suits vs drysuits. I always wear a dry suit. Trim is not a problem, but does take some practice.
Hope this finds you happy and healthy.
Clay
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