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#15534
How many dive shops out there employ the ‘scuba uniform’ system?
Brian_V - 8/28/2013 7:36 AM
Category: Equipment
Replies: 39

…how many dive shops out there employ the ‘scuba uniform’ system?

Under this system, EVERY dive professional in the dive shop wears the EXACT same suite of equipment. This same equipment suite is also offered to the students when they sign up for their open water course. The beauty of
this system is that the gear is priced very reasonably since the shop buys these item in bulk. Also, if any of these divers decide to become dive professionals, they already have the equipment they need to be part of the shop
crew. Everybody wins with this system!
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WarmWaterTurner - 8/28/2013 7:44 AM
Not us. While as Dive Professionals, we are loyal to the brands sold in the shop. But each diver over time develops his or her own personal preferences. Plus - the kit that I now wear would scare a lot of new folks off pricewise.
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RockRat2008 - 8/28/2013 8:14 AM
Personally, I’ve never been around a dive shop that employees this system. I’ve only worked with one dive shop here in Middle TN but I dive with and am friends with dive professionals in every shop in the area. Also, in my travels to Florida and other locations diving I’ve never seen this employed at any of the shops we have dealt with on dive boats, etc.


As WarmWaterTurner said, over time most divers will have preference for one style over another and for everyone to have a "student" set of gear and then their own diving gear isn’t realistic unless the dive shop wants to provide the gear.



Besides, most students don’t buy full kits during open water classes. They have to provide mask, snorkel, fins, booties, and in some cases weights & weight belt. Some will want to go ahead and get additional gear, but most just use the rental gear provided by the shop to start out.
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Green_Achers - 8/28/2013 8:15 AM
I like the concept and agree it would have many benefits. It also would limit the people that are already set up such as myself.

Additionally, I would have also been forced to pay more getting into diving than I did - albeit with better gear - as I bought used gear to piece everything together that I need. I know this is not the normal way people get into diving but I’m not the only cheap-scape out there.

That being said, I may have likely paid the extra amount to get a good deal on better gear - had my LDS not been committed to upper line/priced gear.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 8:30 AM
From WarmWaterTurner: But each diver over time develops his or her own personal preferences.

Having your own gear preferences while you’re sport diving on you own are fine, but when you’re teaching a class, you wear the LDS dive uniform. It reinforces the concept of ’value’ with the students. They see you wearing the same gear they just spent a lot of money on, so they feel their money was well spent.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 8:35 AM
From RockRat2008: ...for everyone to have a "student" set of gear and then their own diving gear isn’t realistic unless the dive shop wants to provide the gear.

Well, if you started diving with that particular LDS, you would already have your scuba uniform. If you’re new to that LDS, but did your professional training elsewhere, they would offer you the gear at a drastic discount. If the entire shop is making the trasition to this concept, then hopefully they bite the bullet and provide your scuba uniform.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 8:41 AM
From RockRat2008: Besides, most students don’t buy full kits during open water classes.

They will buy a full set of gear if that’s what your LDS promotes. Or should I say, YOU (the instructor) will convince them to buy a full set of gear as part of your orientation with the students, since doing so would be the safest way to dive. Plus they get the gear at such a great price when buying the full package! VALUE is the key here!
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RockRat2008 - 8/28/2013 8:41 AM
From Aikidiver: Having your own gear preferences while you’re sport diving on you own are fine, but when you’re teaching a class, you wear the LDS dive uniform. It reinforces the concept of ’value’ with the students. They see you wearing the same gear they just spent a lot of money on, so they feel their money was well spent.



So in effect you’re lying to the students. If it isn’t gear that I am going to normally dive in then I’m promoting a product I don’t use and endorse. Let’s see, I really dive a Sherwood BC, Cressi balanced first & second stage regulators, LiquidVision computer, etc. But what you need is an Oceanic BC, TUSA regulator, and Oceanic computer.



What we do is work with students and their budget if they are interested in gearing some or all of their own gear. For students who have a higher end budget we fit them in higher end gear; For students with a very tight budget we try to fit them in quality lower end gear. This helps all students who want their own gear get it and for students with a bigger budget will give them the ability to go longer without wanting to upgrade.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 8:53 AM
From RockRat2008: So in effect you’re lying to the students. If it isn’t gear that I am going to normally dive in then I’m promoting a product I don’t use and endorse.

Lying’ is such a strong word here, how about instead just saying that you’re supporting your LDS’s requirements to help them be a successful business. And you do use that gear, in every pool session and certification dive, and you do endorse it by simply wearing in front of the students.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 9:05 AM
From RockRat2008: What we do is work with students and their budget if they are interested in gearing some or all of their own gear. For students who have a higher end budget we fit them in higher end gear; For students with a very tight budget we try to fit them in quality lower end gear.

The beauty of the scuba uniform system is that it covers all economic levels of students. This is how it works, you develop 4 sets of gear to cover all price ranges. Set 1: Low end, basic BCD, basic reg assy, gages instead of a computer, low end wetsuit, etc. Set2: Mid range, gear with more bells & whistles, better regs, computer, better quality wetsuit. Set 3: Mid range plus, same as set 2, but with retracters instead of clips, LED lights instead of xenon, etc. Set 4: HIGH END, top of the line EVERYTHING, cost more than twice as much as set 2. Here’s the beauty, you have set 1 for people on a tight budget; set 2 / 3 is for the vast majority of divers, they’re happy because their gear is better quality than set 1 and a fraction of the price of set 4, that’s where the ’value’ component comes into this; and you have set 4 for the folks that have unlimited incomes, you probably won’t sell many of these, but the few you do is all gravy.
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LatitudeAdjustment - 8/28/2013 9:11 AM
Scuba is not a "uniform " sport! Caves, deep dives, wrecks, beach entrys all require different equipment.

The problem I see with a uniform set is there is no upgrading and no buying anything new the brand brings out. At some point it’s going to limit the shops income.

Same issue I have with DIR. Some DIR cop told me I should be wearing doubles on a shore entry, pained black I assume, not my wimpy st72
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 9:21 AM
From LatitudeAdjustment: Scuba is not a "uniform " sport! Caves, deep dives, wrecks, beach entrys all require different equipment.
The scuba uniform is for new divers only, that’s where a LDS makes the majority of its income, by outfitting these newbies with full sets of gear. Con-ed & technical divers can still get their gear at the LDS, mostly on special order, but they’re still supported.
From LatitudeAdjustment: The problem I see with a uniform set is there is no upgrading and no buying anything new the brand brings out. At some point it’s going to limit the shops income.
That’s not true, new gear comes out, the LDS buys those items in bulk once their inventory of the older items is sold. Then they update their staff’s gear to match the new/updated products.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 9:25 AM
From LatitudeAdjustment: At some point it’s going to limit the shops income.
Actually the shops income increases much higher & faster than carrying a broad range of gear. They get a better price by buying in bulk, so that’s a higher profit margin on each item! Carrying lots of inventory of onesie-twosie items with a much lower profit margin LOWERS the shops income.
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RockRat2008 - 8/28/2013 9:27 AM
From Aikidiver: The beauty of the scuba uniform system is that it covers all economic levels of students. This is how it works, you develop 4 sets of gear to cover all price ranges.



Then I’m not wearing a "set" in the pool, I’m wearing 1 of 4 potential sets of gear in the pool. What if a student says "I can’t afford the mid range set but I would like a computer?" Do you tell him he has to buy gauges or do you modify your "kit" to just add a computer to his low end set?



You can suggest what you want, and it may work for you, but in my experience you’re going to lose potential students and long term customers if you start trying to force new divers to buy gear.



Many of our divers are only going to be diving once or twice a year on cruise vacations because they don’t like inland diving and aren’t going to buy gear to do it.



If it works for you, great, but suggesting it as a model for all dive shops isn’t realistic and I think the overall responses to your question are supporting that.
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oceanfloor - 8/28/2013 9:42 AM
We wear what the shop sells. My first set is not what the shop sells so I wear that on my personal dives.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 10:08 AM
From RockRat2008: What if a student says "I can’t afford the mid range set but I would like a computer?" Do you tell him he has to buy gauges or do you modify your "kit" to just add a computer to his low end set?
The student can always upgrade any part of the uniform they like to the next set level, you just adjust the price of the package for the upgrade.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 10:13 AM
From RockRat2008: If it works for you, great, but suggesting it as a model for all dive shops isn’t realistic and I think the overall responses to your question are supporting that.
Hey, I’m not supporting this system at ALL! The shop I WAS at crossed over to a particular certification agency that not only endorses this system, but trains the crossing-over instructors in how to implement it. Personally I find it misleading on many levels, so I left that shop! I was just curious if there are other shops out there running this ’system’.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 10:19 AM
The shop I WAS at also has rental/cage gear for divers who choose not to buy their uniform. I won’t go into their suggestions for gear sizing to convince these divers to buy their own gear to be more comfortable while diving.
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oceanfloor - 8/28/2013 10:27 AM
If your going to work for one shop then you should support their brands. If your contracting yourself out to various different shops with different certifications, then I guess you’ll be doing as you please since you answer to no one. If a shop doesn’t like it then they can hire another instructor. Personally, Aikidiver... I support the concept of helping to support your shop, after all it is a business, their shop, their rules :) I was in agreement with your responses.
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RockRat2008 - 8/28/2013 10:49 AM
Don’t get me wrong, we all wear/support the brands that our shop uses, but we don’t try to "convince"/"force"/"excessively encourage" students that they need to buy gear.


Being known as a shop that sells to the customers needs, doesn’t try to upsell/oversell, and is willing to cater classes around difficult schedules has gotten us to have students drive as far an hour, past 2 other shops, to take lessons from us and it has also gotten us as the recommended shop by one of the colleges that offers certification classes. So every semester now we have a whole new crop of college students coming in for masks, fins, snorkels, booties, weights and weight belts. After that first semester if they keep going through advanced certifications we see them back for compasses, wreck reels, and other gear.



Then at some point most of them do end up buying a BC, reg set, etc. and many of them will come back to do business with us because they have built a relationship with them not because we tried to bleed them dry up front.
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oceanfloor - 8/28/2013 10:58 AM
"Bleeding them dry" ???? Hahaha... Where did that come from? I never said anything like that.... You must be confusing the topic.... I merely stated that a shop that hire an instructor has a right to require that they wear the type of gear that they carry... Nothing more nothing less...
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WarmWaterTurner - 8/28/2013 11:00 AM
From Aikidiver: Having your own gear preferences while you’re sport diving on you own are fine, but when you’re teaching a class, you wear the LDS dive uniform. It reinforces the concept of ’value’ with the students. They see you wearing the same gear they just spent a lot of money on, so they feel their money was well spent.

When referring to personal preferences I was speaking of within a particular shop brand line. The only time I dive my personal kit is when I am diving not as a representative of the shop. That being said as I am sure you would agree there are vast differences between a starter BC and a top of the brand BC. My understanding has always been (and is strongly encouraged if not quietly demanded of by my shop) is to wear the top of the line - including the newest and the best that the shop has to offer in order to make the student want to work to move up. So, I am afraid I see it the other way around as to the value. I think it would be an easier sales model to have them see what I am wearing and want to emulate that as opposed to requiring them do so - after all in my shop the very rare bird is the one who comes in to take the class and is willing and able to drop that kind of money on a maybe.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 11:18 AM
From RockRat2008: you’re going to lose potential students and long term customers if you start trying to force new divers to buy gear.
What you’re doing by implementing this ’system’ is playing the odds! Stats for O/W divers continuing with their training is not great. So, this is your best chance to move gear because most divers won’t continue diving anyway. Business is business, inventory turn over is what keeps the profits up.
But if you are interested in getting them to continue to dive, stats show that divers who own their own gear continue to dive. It’s a win-win!
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RockRat2008 - 8/28/2013 11:31 AM
From oceanfloor: I merely stated that a shop that hire an instructor has a right to require that they wear the type of gear that they carry... Nothing more nothing less...



You misread me - I said instructors/divemasters/staff etc all dive store branded gear and we don’t try to "bleed students dry up front by making them buy a lot of gear.
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RockRat2008 - 8/28/2013 11:34 AM
From Aikidiver: What you’re doing by implementing this ’system’ is playing the odds! Stats for O/W divers continuing with their training is not great.



It’s a gamble either way; Our philosophy is to develop divers, not move gear. I personally give every new diver my e-mail and phone number and let them know I’ll dive with them anytime. The weekend after their checkout dives I encourage them to go with me to another local dive site to see a different place to dive. We encourage them to try to new types of diving by continuing with the AOW course.



It is much better to build a relationship than just to move gear, IMHO.
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oceanfloor - 8/28/2013 11:46 AM
Guess that your assuming that people that move gear don’t built relationships.... That is untrue.
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RockRat2008 - 8/28/2013 12:14 PM
Not assuming anything ... Aikidiver said "your best chance to move gear because most divers won’t continue diving anyway. Business is business, inventory turn over is what keeps the profits up."

That’s his point on it not mine. My point is if you build the relationship you can move gear, if you try to move gear first you may lose the chance to build a relationship.
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oceanfloor - 8/28/2013 12:24 PM
Yes everyone is interested in the profits, including instructors, dive shops, charter boats, hotels, dive travel agencies....it’s called the diving industry but it doesn’t mean that we don’t care, and yes, they are all interested in building relationships in the hopes of having returning consumers. We all want safe happy divers.
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zielit - 8/28/2013 12:31 PM
This is simply forcing the purchase, not only unethical but not legal in many countries.


Would you be willing to take car or motorcycle driving course only if you have to buy particular make and model of the car???



I’d never ever visit that LDS again ...
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oceanfloor - 8/28/2013 12:41 PM
The question had to do with how many shops required that the instructor wear their gear.... Nothing unethical about that.
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Brian_V - 8/28/2013 1:19 PM
From oceanfloor: The question had to do with how many shops required that the instructor wear their gear
Yes, this is how that thread started ....but ..... the underlying reason FOR wearing the shop’s gear could be anything from simply wearing gear you like, to a more sinister reason to sale mass quantities of particular gear, gear that you might not even like!
I know it looks like I’m trolling here, but believe, I am not! I’m just trying to make divers aware of these type of sales tactics. I’m more of a ’Devil’s Advocate’ here!
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zielit - 8/28/2013 1:52 PM
From oceanfloor: The question had to do with how many shops required that the instructor wear their gear.... Nothing unethical about that.



Yup you’re right, it’s forced only for stuff and offered to students, still I would pass unless it’s provided by shop not required to buy from them. My LDS provides bigger discounts for instructors (smaller for DMs) but does’t force you to buy exact make and model.
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Greg - 8/29/2013 12:52 PM
Dive shops here in Houston do the same thing. If you work as a dive master or instructor for them, you’re supposed to dive in the same gear as other dive masters and instructors. Of course it’s gear that the dive shop sells. And most dive shops in the Houston area, with the exception of one or two, frown on students using gear bought anywhere else other than their shop.


Many dive shops perceive selling gear as their main source of revenue. I have challenged this idea a couple times:



http://www.divebuddy.com/forum/28244/dive-shop-country-club-members/

http://www.divebuddy.com/blog/10912/attention-dive-shops-fear-internet/
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RAWalker - 8/30/2013 6:24 PM
IMHO if you hear or see that the shop has the divemasters and instructors in uniform like clones run away from that shop and find a shop where each instructor can pick and choose to use whatever gear they choose. There are choices that are fine for reef diving and others better suited for wreck, cave and more technical dives. The prices vary wildly from brand to brand even at similar relative quality points. For instance Brand A top of the line regulator costs $1800 with no a manufacturers pricing policy that sets both the advertised price and selling price. Brand B top of the line has only the advertised price set by the manufacturer and the selling price can be discounted by the retailer Both brands were sent to the last round of NOAA regulator testing for NOAA and Navy Dive teams safety test. Brand be was found to be substantially safer for cold water environments (which tend to be the most demanding in real life use) and due to the testing Brand B’s regulator was adopted for use by NOAA. Since the testing Brand B has released a newer Regulator moving the prior regulator to the second spot in the manufacturers product line and in the move reducing the MSRP and the advertised price of the tested regulator. This reg now cost 1/5th that of the Brand A reg and the newer Brand B reg that is now considered top of the line is less than 1/3rd of the Top of the line from Brand A. Should divers consider Brand A and why don’t more dive shops carry the Brand B line?
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ScubaCrab - 8/30/2013 11:06 PM
Keep it simple stupidit! It was confusingly when I started diving so many choices. I researched and looked for equipment I could grow with. Went with the Dive Rite Trans Pac. So glad I did if I want to change things it is very adjustable. I can change out the wing’s, weight pocket’s accesory pockets etc for different types of diving. Add D rings as many any where I want to clip my accessory’s for my preference. Everything is compatible and standard with many different brand’s. If you want the most current style buy it and buy again every time style’s change or your diving skill’s change. Plain black adjustable gear that last’s a long time work’s for me!
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DiveBuddyChgo - 9/04/2013 8:29 PM
If a shop wants you to wear a uniform. Then wear the shops uniform. Either have the shop loan or give the uniform to you during work hours. When your diving on your day off. Then you wear your own personnel equiipment you paid for. And that doesn’t mean you have to buy from your work place either. But your shop should offer some pretty good perks to keep you in thier gear line. If not then your just another customer. What, Where you buy equipment to dive on your own free time is a privacy issue. But while your at work you must adhere to the work place rules. Working in a dive shop is not a hobby. Its a place of business and your an employee. The uniform is a tool of the trade and should be supplied. A full time dive professional at $35hr./ benefits but will always pay for thier shop uniform. But most dives shops will use the system until you wake up and realize what just happened.
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Brian_V - 9/05/2013 7:29 AM
From DiveBuddyChgo: A full time dive professional at $35hr./ benefits but will always pay for thier shop uniform.
Maybe as a repair tech you can get $35 an hour + benefits, but as an instructor, you get paid by the courses you teach and certifications you complete. At least that’s the way the shops operate where I have worked.
$35 an hour would be awsesome! For an open water course, classroom & pool time would work out to be about $1,000.00 per class! Where do I sign up for that, I was only making about 1/4 of that for each class!
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John_giu - 9/05/2013 6:06 PM
That’s why they make chocolate and vanilla. Everyone has their own preference.

I would be leery of a shop trying to outfit me with what they had on hand.

I did my own research and bought what I though provided the best price/performance

for me. In my case, Mares Abyss regulators, with which I have been very happy with.

I like Scubapro computers, although I have a Oceanic wrist computer. You get the idea.