#110
Triggers of Dive Accidents
myscubastory - 3/14/2011 3:58 PM
Category: Health & Safety
Replies: 15

Stats show that approx 40 percent of identifiable dive accidents are due to out of air (OOA) situations.

So why do people run out of air?

The answer I’ve come up with is one that I think is controversial but true: Because we tell our students it’s OK to run out of air.

Here’s why...
In basic classes, I’m sure we all teach "Don’t run out of air, don’t run out of air, don’t run out of air." But we follow that up with: "But if you do, there are some options." (And we go into combinations of octo, buddy-breathing, pony, free ascent, etc.) We present these options as not only resonable, not only as easy to learn (after, we teach it in a BASIC class) but we also imply, if not state directly, that they have a high incidence of success. We’ve just inadvertently told them "Don’t run out of air but if you do, it’s OK because here’s how you can solve that probem."

I think we need to stop doing that.

Would it be better simply not to teach OOA options? And to simply say, "If you run out of air, there’s an excellent chance you’re going to die, so don’t do it." (Or maybe teach OOA options as an advanced skill.) Shouldn’t we be putting the Fear of God in them about running out of air? Because we’re certainly not doing it now.

The other issue with OOA is that there’s no penalty for running out of air, other than killing yourself. And how many people really think that whatever they’re doing is going to result in their death? Right now, people run out of air and can keep diving. Assuming they don’t kill themselves, there’s no penalty for it other than a little embarrassment in front of other divers.

Some companies have a very simple rule: Run out of air, and you’re done diving for the day. Period. No exceptions.

Dive certification agencies should say up front: Run out of air, and we revoke your certification card. Want it back? Then you’re required to do some remedial training that emphasizes not running out of air. Run out of air twice? Find another sport.

Running out of air, based on the stats, seems phenomenally dangerous. It’s certainly not something any of us would recommend yet it’s something that, as an industry, we tolerate. Yet it’s also something that clearly kills people. And that in turn, has got to have an effect on our insurance rates. Think about it: If we could eliminate 40% of the fatalities tomorrow, wouldn’t that also result in fewer lawsuits which should also result in lower insurance rates?

That’s about it in a very long nutshell. Thoughts???
#5884
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kcdiver - 3/14/2011 5:38 PM


Your thinking that all out of air problems are coming from divers just staying down till they are out, I would say that most of those stats are also from going places they should not or aren’t trained for such as wrecks and caves. The OOA are trained for the unforseen issues also such as o-ring pops, hose ruptures, free flow at depth, and will run out before reaching the surface.


If you don’t train the student how to handle OOA situations then they won’t know what to do if they ever have something like this happen to them.


Saving the training for a later classes is assuming they take another class, since they are free to dive after training i think passing up life saving skills would not be in the best interest of the student.
#310
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jnowak100 - 3/14/2011 9:16 PM
I agree with KC, train for every eventuality because should it happen, you can deal with it and nobody gets hurt. don’t train for it, don’t anticipate and more people get hurt. out of air? well we all plan to end the dive with enough air, and DM’s keep checking everyone including experienced divers, but still stuff happens to delay both good and bad, stuff happens to make the anticipated reserve not nearly enough. So PRACTICE, shared air, buddy breathing, staying with the buddy, and maybe you will never need to actually use the lessons, but should you need the lesson, you know what to do. I am interning for my Dive Master certification, people freak out at simple stuff when all they need to do is stand up in shallow water, so we practice, losing a mask, droping the reg, out of air etc, cause you dont want divers to freak out at depth over something simple and easy to remedy. And of course, if you have ever run out of air, and had to CESA or Share Air, you should get religion before the next dive, if you dont well, then you’re hopeless.
#110
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myscubastory - 3/15/2011 1:55 AM
Yes both good points there. I think maybe the essential thing to do would not be to delay this OOA training, but rather, to overemphasis that this should never happen when doing the demo and skills for OOA. OK some people do this already, but i do get the feeling that others treat the OOA skills just like any other mask RnR skill etc.

Thanks for the thoughts sp,
#1712
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slippin2darknezz - 3/15/2011 10:45 AM
In addition to the OOA drills they could quite possibly expand on it a little more to incude buddy shut down drills. On a few occasions I have seen new divers bumping into one another and 1st stages becoming unseated causing an OOA emergency due to free flow and more experienced divers at the site go over and shut down the free flow and hand off their oct. The dive buddy either handed off their oct or just watched the air flow from the tank. You cant possibly cover every possible OOA emergency that can occur, but you can prepare for some of the common ones. Emergency prepardness is a state of mind in which the eye looks and evaluates possible flaws in a system and anticipates for it. Developing that skill and mindset in a diver will help to prevent most possible situations.
#310
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jnowak100 - 3/16/2011 7:34 PM
Yes practice for every eventuality and carrying an extra pony is an excellent idea, used unfortunately it seems only in the north atlantic wreck dives to depth, because if you dive often enough, you will see so many "could never possibly happen" stuff actually happen. And in the process of practicing, hopefully I become a better diver myself. And I realize, that if I am an "experienced" diver, others will be looking to me as a role model, just as I look to other more experienced divers as a role model. Most diver errors are usually something really very simple that the casual eye of an experienced diver would have caught early before it became a problem, and even from a purely selfish perspective, I would rather end a dive 10 min early rather than ruin my two tank dive or dive vacation because we lost a diver, literally or figuratively, over something I could have remedied just by being attentive. we try to end a dive with 500 to 700 psi at surface so OOA can be something as simple or as rigorous as a shore exit in heavy surf, or a little too deep a little too long, or the extra minute to find the anchor line, the camera dropped, untangling a line, the weird stuff that can happen in just the last few minutes of a dive. So practicing for OOA and other misadventures and carrying a pony for self rescue can make diving a lot more fun for all concerned.

Then there are lots of things a diver can do while not being exactly an "unpaid dive master" that are really no big deal. If there are a number of new divers on the boat, I try to be the first into the water, the DM maybe busy getting them ready, so I am there in the water just in case, nothing I ever say. If an OW candidate has to swim to the shore from the boat, why I think I will swim too, just in case, and its also fun, but nothing I ever say, and I watch other divers set up their gear no matter how experienced, maybe I learn something maybe they learn something and hopefully, some is also watching me, just in case, no big deal.
#23
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MurphyMt - 3/17/2011 2:10 AM
And some people are just stupid or panic. i.e. we were doing our deep dive speciality qualifying dives around 30 meters and one person ran low on air I’m thinking below at +- 50 bar either for worrying about what others might think or just not paying attention. We were a group of about 8 and by the time we were doing our last safety stop because of this person it had caused a cascaded effect and 4 people were buddy breathing off the other 4 people. So we were all in an emergency situation as per 1 or maybe 2 divers stupidity or over site. The more diving becomes recreational the more we might be finding people with bad judgement and stupidity in times. Granted me and these people should have been so shit scared that this should not have been possible but it did and we all recovered safely with no incident besides for the instructor wanting to fail us all :) 
#255
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brixn - 3/20/2011 9:43 PM
Correct assessment by MurphyMt; - and add to this mix physical (aerobically) unfit individuals, and it is a miracle that more incidents or accidents are not happening. - Seems to me that the dive-shops happily hire out euipment to divers, who may well have an Open Water or equivalent, - but implementing Duty of Care in relation to an individual diver’s CURRENT medical fitness for diving, goes right out the window. - One day this way of operating will fall over in conjunction with the first big law-suit.
#1712
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slippin2darknezz - 3/21/2011 6:43 AM
I posted a survey and blog in regards to fitness to dive asking what people thought about annual physicals for divers, the results and comments were interesting and varied across the board. DAN also did an article about being honest on dive physicals also. There are alot of factors that come into play with a person fitness for diving. It is a strenous sport and there possibly should be a high standard for fitness when it comes to diving. I dont think it will change in the near future. The burden stays with the individual diver as to their prepardness to dive and their ability to monitor their air supply and dive within their limits. That burden cannot be placed on the dive shop or charter operator. That rest with the diver who assumes the risk of taking to the water and being ready to handle an emergency, dive within their limits and training.
#5082
divershaun - 5/25/2012 7:48 AM
might as well stop teaching pilots emergency landing too because obviously they do it all the time for fun, look at capt sully! i feel that that would be a horrible idea. EP’s (emergency procedures) are a must in any dangerous activity. you should probably stop teaching them buddy rescues also because if their buddy is dumb enough to run out of air you might as well leave them down there right?
#255
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brixn - 5/25/2012 6:26 PM
Fitness to dive ?? - Health & Safety in the context of SCUBA diving ??
- All these are obviously the responsibility of the individual diver.
- However, - during 50 years of recreational and professional diving I have more often than I want to remember seen divers - obviously unfit, - i.e., completely out of puff by the time they get into their suit, - or they are obese or both; - apart from being burdened by the hidden but other common lifestyle diseases or latent ditto. Last time I looked I found not one single decompression table designed for obese people of for those with high blood pressure !!
- I have seen professional divers feverishly taking up a fitness program a month or so before their annual medical check; - barely scraping through, - and then only to revert to their previous habits. -
My point is: Relying on divers to take personal responsibility in relation to their own fitness to dive is clearly not sufficient; - thus the responsibility must be shared by the Dive Masters, who without a care let the unfit and high-risk divers into the water, -and dive-shops that blithely rent equipment to people who obviously should not be ’turned loose’ to dive.
- Adding that the recreational industry (PADI and the rest) seem to be petrified at the thought of missing a sale of a pair of gloves at the expense of having divers get involved in a diving specific fitness regime.
Reading the latest DAN statistics about SCUBA diving fatalities tells me two things:
1: It is only a question of WHEN - not IF - a dive-shop owner or Dive Master will be sued for negligence !!
2: It is only a question of WHEN - not IF that governments - certainly in Australia - will regulate accordingly.
Cheers
#255
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brixn - 5/26/2012 6:06 AM
Me - me - me !!

Says it all !

Cheers
#365
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iluvscuba - 7/06/2013 9:06 PM
As a fairly new diver and an overweight one, i just thought maybe i should say a few things.first being about -dont run out of air! I learned that and its stuck in my head. Every dive i have been on i start accending when ive reached 500 pounds. Just my rule. Period! I will say that i wish more would have been emphasized on buddy breathing and running out of air completly. More practice drills and actually having your air cut off. I did have an incident when i was in cozumel but it was due to regulator issues and then the other instructor that i went diving with having having a large camera on the same sude as his alternate air source side, so when i went to use it, i got freakin nothing! The air line was twisted and pinched from his camera. We started buddy breathing on his 2nd stage but i panicked and went for the surface. We were only 15 feet down by this time but my point is not enough is emphasized and practiced. I relive this everynight but i am not going to let it slow me down. Oh and by the way- it was a night dive. Im glad this happened to me early in my diving adventure as it makes me more aware now of mine and others equipment. "Dont put your crap in my emergency space". On the health issue, i am an overweight female with a bmi of 40, but i have no heath issues at all except for my weight. Im 41and scuba diving is making me get myslf into better shape. I have great air utilization but i want my lungs to be stronger and able to expand more and hold more air. I work on this and have started riding my bike as well as eating better. 3 days of 2 tank diving wears me out but i know that and therefore are working to make myself better and stronger to have a safer more enjoyable diving experiencs. Ill be happy to answer any questions yall have about my post.

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